Talking Dog

I didn't know if I would like this story when I first started reading. The title makes it seem like the adventures of a talking dog, but the story is mostly about the family. It seems like an ordinary family, but a lot happens to them in the story. The death of the father kind of just passes along. There isn't much description. This seems to be a reflection of what the family is like, distant from one another. They deal with things on their own. Jimmy says at the end of the story that the older sister "had powers," and the younger sister disagrees. Life is ordinary for most people, and it ends so abruptly like the father and the daughter in this story. Maybe Jimmy sees something remarkable about that ordinariness. He was always trying to be extraordinary himself, and he doesn't amount to much by the end of the story. Melanie asked if it would be better from Jimmy's perspective, and I think it would be interesting to see the family from the outside looking in.

In the last line of the story it says that Jimmy would love the older sister more for pretending to talk to a dog. The dog represents dead people in the story, so maybe he means that by talking to dogs she was trying to make some sense of death. Everyone else in the story seems to move along without thinking much about what happens. The younger sister says that Jimmy would always "prefer [the older sister's] smoky opacity to" her "transparent face" (pg. 504). He sees some mystery in the older sister, and maybe he connects this mysteriousness with the mystery about life and death. Even if she was only pretending to talk to dogs, he would forgive her because she was trying to find some meaning.

Why does the author include the detail about the mother's views on race? Does this tie into the theme of the story?

Talking Dog

I agree with the previous post, I don’t think that the narrator’s sister had forgotten Jimmy at all. In my opinion, the image of the talking dog reflects her grief. She is mourning because of Jimmy’s dead and she imagines that dogs are sending her messages from him. Also, when Jimmy comes back, she goes away with him without caring that she’s already married. This shows that she was still in love with him. I think that what they had can be called true love because they were somehow linked to each other, like destined to be together, and sometimes it seems like they knew exactly what they were feeling without them saying anything. An example of this could be the fact that when Jimmy came back, he already knew where the older sister was, it’s like they had already planned to meet again. It also seems like Jimmy already knew that she was married because he wasn’t surprised at all when the little sister told him the news. It’s like something magical that is beyond the reader’s understanding unified them. What makes me doubt about their love is that the older sister left Jimmy when her mother came to their shack. “Going for lunch? Jimmy said. But we all knew they weren’t. Mother told me to get in back. Jimmy looked in and I saw him notice my sister’s suitcase.” (pg510). But it’s interesting that Jimmy didn’t do anything to stop her from leaving. “He did nothing to stop us – that was the strangest part. He let me get in and let us take off and stood there and watched us go.” Maybe the older sister really had powers and already knew that she was going to die.

It’s hard to say what was really going on between them because the story is told from an external point of view which is also a subjective point of view. The little sister says that her sister forgot about Jimmy, I don’t think that’s true, but maybe that’s what the little sister wanted to believe. She was kind of obsessed with Jimmy since she didn’t care about her sister’s death as long as she could have him.

I like the fact that the story was told from the little sister’s point of view because we can see how frustrated she is when she can’t have what her sister has. When Jimmy came back, he didn’t care or realized that the little sister had waited for him, but instead she took the big sister back, even if she was already married to someone else. The little sister is jealous of everything that her older sister has, everyone seems to love her because they all believe that she has powers, but the little sister doesn’t seem to get any special attention from anyone. I think most of people that have big brothers or sisters can relate to this feeling, because sometimes having an older sibling is like having an example to follow, and not being able to follow it or not being able to have the things that the other person has makes it very frustrating. Although this only happens when the younger sibling is still very young and doesn’t know quite yet what he really wants, so he just wants what the older sibling wants. I think this story portrays very well the selfishness and frustration that a younger sibling could have towards an older brother or sister.

I like the fact that this story seems to be realistic, but it inserts a supernatural side, the image of talking dogs. The reader never knows if the big sister really knew how to talk to dogs or if she was only inventing everything as the narrator said in the end, “I wanted to tell Jimmy that my sister didn’t have powers. (…) I wanted to say that she’d lied to us all, she’d faked it about the dog”. But the fact that Jimmy believes that the sister can really talk to dogs and that she has powers, makes the reader doubt about this being true or false. I really like this kind of stories that mix reality with fantasy and make the reader think that something supernatural could be happening in the real world.

Do you think it would have been better if the story had been told from Jimmy or the older sister’s point of view?

Talking Dog- Francine Prose

I think that this was a very well written short story. In my opinion, the author was able to grab the readers attention with the title alone. When I first saw the title, it grabbed my attention and made me want to read on because there obviously arent dogs that can really talk. So I was definatly interested to see what this piece was all about.

Prose also did a very good job with characterization. She created very distinct characterisitics between all of her characters. With her abilitly to do this, we were able to see how big a change came over the narrators sister once Jimmy dies. In the beginning she seemed to be a laid back, fun person who idolized another person with the same qualities. Once Jimmy dies, we see a drastic change and she goes from driving out onto the lake in a car to not even wanting to get out of bed to answer the phone. I found it intersting that in the middle of the story, the narrator is convinced that her sister has forgotten about Jimmy simply because she got married to someone else. I dont think that this was the case at all. I think that after something that tragic happens, and the grieving is done, you reach a point where you realize that things arent ever going to go back to the way things were, and you have to move on with your life... as hard as it may be. Sometimes there is no use dwelling on what could have been. The narrators sister just moved on with her life. However again because of the characterization that the author created, we were able to see the change in her that occured not only once Jimmy died but also after she got married. Her happy , fun loving side was gone and in its place there was a very serious person, who just kind of went along with things. I think that that in itself should portray how she still at that point was not over the death of Jimmy.

Theres that saying that you always want what you cant have and I think that this idea is what the narrator was portraying in regards to Jimmy. on the last page of the story. It was clear that she had a very big crush on him, but then , she says " For a fraction of a second, i thought that I might still want him. But I didnt want him. I just didnt want her to have him forever. I was shocked to be so jealous when death meant that it could never be fixed. I didnt want it to be that way, but that was how it was." p.512. How selfish is it that she would rather have her sister dead, than see the two of the together.

The narrator was convinced that her sister had forgotton about Jimmy, but after reading the story and seeing the outcome of the situation ... would you agree? Do you think that the love they share for one another is true love??

g string

I dont know how unlikely a pair Gillan and Mr. Kip actually are. Personally, I think that there are alot of couples out there today that are just like them. You have a a female who is not too confident in themselves and a male who has money and loves to flaunt it. Usually in realtionships like this the male always is in control and the female kind of just goes along with it, like a puppet because she isnt confident enough to speak up for herself. The woman in Gillians position, go to great lenghts in order to make the man happy, including buy expensive clothes and hoping that they notice it, or doing exactly what they say so they wont make them mad in any way. I also think that alot of middle aged woman today are in the same boat as Gillian because the world that they grew up in is completely different than the more modern one that they have to adapt to today. Alot of the time, they decide that its easier just to stick with their old ways, instead of trying to keep up with the changing times.

I dont know if anyone has seen it, but this story kind of made me think of the movie "The Holiday" starring Kate Winslet. The movie took place in England, so everyone spoke with an English accent and she was kind of out dated from the rest of the world. She is hooked on a guy who constantly plays with her, and only calls when its convient for him or he needs something from her. Kate's character goes online and ends up replying to an offer to swap houses with another woman who lives in LA (very modern), and ends up moving there for a good amount of time. Its obvious once she gets there that these two woman live completely different lives. Kate was used to having living in a little one bedroom bungalo, with no tv or any other modern things, and then she moved to LA where she got to live in a home where there was a remote control for everything in site and a maid to clean up any mess that you might make. She goes from wearing "knickers" to "g-strings" kind of like Gillian and in the end, she puts her foot down with this guy and tells him that the way he has been treating her will not continue to go on. Similar to what happend with Gillian. I think that changing with the times and trying to adapt to the modernized way of living is important as far as womans rights go. If they are stuck in the older way of living, more likely than not they will also have an older mentality. And in this day and age, its so important for woman to speak their minds and stick up for themseleves and not just settle for anything less than they deserve.

Both Gillians and Kate Winslet's character finally learned to be modern woman with modern ideas and a bit more confident than they started out to be. Very important in todays society.

G-STRING

I thought the story was too short also but, it was quite amusing. Although I do hate reading stories in which the characters have English accents. I was able to relate to Gillian and her dilema's with keeping up with the modern time. I myself feel as though it hard to keep up with everything that changes in the world one a daily basis.

Gillian and Mr Kip to me seem like an unlikely couple. It shows that they are both uncomfprtable with their relationship in different sections of the story. Gillian is uncomfortable with herself and how Mr Kip perceives her to be and Mr kip seems uncomfortable with the way Gillian looks and acts.

The part where Gillian is in the Lingerie shop with her friend trying out clothes sticks in my head for many reasons. This part of the story makes it so realistic to me. As woman we all have our moments when we are out with friends shopping for that special item that is going to make us feel like we are beautiful. Unfortunatly we usually end up with something uncomfortable that makes us look better. The fact that Gillian is pretty much forced into wearing a g-string to make her outfit look more acceptable. She felt uneasy about it the whole time but did it anyways.

Mr Kip seemed very self-centered. He was comparing Katherine Hepburn to Gillian. Making her feel insecure about her appearance. He told her she was frizzy not fizzy like Katherine. When it came time for the to go to the Rotary club he told her not to put her head on the head rest if she had used hairspray. This shows that her comfort level isn't important to him. While they are at the club he compared her to a cone-shaped upstanding white napkins instead of trying to compliment her. He sat at the table with her and drank and smoked, tipped ash on her and didn't introduce her to any of his friends.

While the were on the way home Mr Kip's windshield wiper flew off and ontop the side of the road Mr Kip's fogged up glasses prevented him from seeing much, so he demanded Gillian to help him look. In her new dress went flopping around in the muddy side of the road and found the wiper. When it didn't work he blamed her and Gillian finally took control. She took his tie, her G-string and swiss ary knife and constructed a way to make the wipers function. He then in some effect got "Off" on this and tried to come on to her but, Gillian wasn't having it. She had finally realized she was a modern woman and she wasn't going to be a fool for Colin(Mr Kip) anymore.

I believe that the story should have gone on a bit but, it did get its message accross. I think that if the story was to proceed from that point maybe they would stay in the relationship but, Gillialn would now wear the pants.

"G-String"

I like the evolution of the characters throughout the story. I think this story represents the evolution of the place of women in society. Before, women were only supposed to have kids and clean the house, they didn’t have any opportunities to study or work, and they were totally dependent of men. However, nowadays women have the same rights as men, the right to study, work and be independent, although this has not been fully accomplished in some countries.

We could compare the evolution of women in society with the evolution of Gillian in this story. At first, she is presented as a quiet character that lets Mr. Kip control her and bring her down. She doesn’t particularly stand out in her job, working for “a car-hire firm in Grays Thurrock”, whereas Mr. Kip’s insurance business is “small but flourishing”. She is very insecure and has no self-esteem because she is constantly compared to this perfect actress, Katharine Hepburn, who is “skinny and elegant and sparky and intelligent.” Gillian doesn’t like anything about herself; she doesn’t like her frizzy hair or her body, and tries constantly to fit in the “modern woman” stereotype. Also, Mr. Kip’s behavior doesn’t help her. He compares her to “the cone-shaped upstanding white napkins on the fancily made-up tables” when she is wearing her new white dress, and doesn’t introduce her to any of his friends. He even “tips ashes on her” while smoking his cigar.

However, “all of a sudden, wheeewwoing!”, the wipers of the car flew off as the character’s roles dramatically changed. Gillian finally stands out for her dignity. She proves that she can be clever, strong, independent, and that she has the right to be respected. She no longer calls him “Mr. Kip”, but she now calls him “Collin”, and finally, Collin ends up falling for her. As far as I am concerned, I think that the author created an evolution in character and situation which surprises the reader. I think this dramatic change is what makes the story stand out for itself in only 3 pages.

What do you think about the story beginning with a question: “Ever fallen out with somebody simply because they agreed with you?”, how does this question relate to the situation described in the story?

G-String

I think some of the story captured the essence of what men and women are today, but not all. When it comes down to Mr. Kip, I don't think all men think like he does. The men that I know want a woman to be able to support herself if need be and they want them to have a voice because they want to know what they think or at least they want to argue with them. When it comes to Gillian, I think she's insecure about her weight and size and the fact that she's not like Katharine Hepburn. Which, in turn makes Gillian so much more insecure due to Mr. Kip's obssesed affections towards Hepburn.

When Gillian is convinced to buy and wear this G-String, she's at a lost about this new contraption. She's so used to being her old self and being in place where not even Mr. Kip respects her for who she is. Gillian doesn't even respect herself because she's with a guy who is always comparing her to an actress that he'll never meet and if he met her, he wouldn't like her because she's old now. Why would this woman ever stay with a man like that? Like I said before she has no self-respect.

She wears the G-String on a night where Mr. Kip takes her out. It's the same thing all over again. He downs her, makes her feel like she's worthless, but this time she's had enough. She agreed with Mr. Kip in the beginning, thinking that she was worthless. But she doesn't agree with him anymore and now she's the one that's going to get herself out of the situation that Mr. Kip put her in, but also in the situation that she put herself in. She saves herself and Mr. Kip out of the rain, but I also see her saving herself from Mr. Kip. Katharine Hepburn would never do what Gillian did to get out of rain and for that Gillian should be proud of herself.

G-String

I think the shortness of the story does in fact work. I think it makes a neatly packaged point. Although I must admit I would have liked it to be longer. It could have expressed in more ways how modern women feel.

I really liked the last line, actually. I think the author was trying to portray what modern women actually feel like or have to be like, insecure, strong, clever. In her own way, Gillian displayed a distinguishable set of admireable attributes, she was smart (she was able to figure out a way for the wipers to work when Mr. Kip couldn't), self-assured (getting out of the car and going ito the rain wearing a white dress, something that Miss Hepburn would not have done), clever (using her g-string to fix wipers) in which Mr. Kip seemed proud and maybe a little turned on by and in turn by putting his hand on her thigh gave her a little 'pat on the back.' I think in that moment it reminded him of what real women are like today, and why they should be appreciated.

The attributes of women like Kathrine Hepburn that Mr. Kip seems so in love with (i.e. elegance) doesn't fit in the world we live in today. In that situation Gillian could not be elegant. She had to trudge in the rain and fix the wipers because Mr. Kip couldn't. She had to take off her g-string (not so elegant) and in doing so, it seemed to earn Mr. Kip's respect even if it wasn't something that Kathrine Hepburn would have done. The traditional roles of men and women have changed greatly. If Mr. Kip was more of a man (in the traditional sense, like he wants Gillian to be) maybe Gillian could have been more elegant. I think this story poses a reminder as to why women today should be appreciated. We may or may not be elegant, or proper, or classy but we are definately strong, confident, feisty, sexy, and clever in our own ways. One must just pay attention to detail. This is not to say that men haven't changed in some good ways as well.

Do you think this captured the essence of what men and women are like today?

Nicola Barker Story

Mr. Kip is presented well as a villain. Just the fact that he has a nickname like "Mr. Kip," and that he gave it to himself, tells what kind of a character he is. Twice the author uses the word "deign" in reference to Mr. Kip: when he deigns to drive the Aston Martin (pg. 69) and when he deigns to drive Gillian home (pg. 71). It's a good word to get across his sense of superior character, like he's some kind of nobleman helping a peasant. I like the line that "Mr. Kip told Gillian to get out and look" for the windshield wiper (pg. 71). I just thought it was really funny because he's dead serious about having her get out in the rain and look for something.

I'm not sure that I like the final line of the story, that "she was a truly modern female." It feels like "they all lived happily ever after," like the author is explaining the point of the story. This story kind of reminded me of Raymond Carver's story with its briefness, but Carver ends his story more subtly, with the husband thinking about the shining car when he first bought it. It makes you think and connect that image with the rest of the story, whereas maybe the meaning of this story is made too obvious. But I don't know, because maybe the author wanted it that way. Maybe she was aware that she wasn't leaving any subtlety, and maybe that fits in with what she was trying to do with the story.

Obviously a short story is supposed to be short, but some are longer than others. This was only about three full pages. Does the briefness of this story work?

Willing

Somethings that I noticed about the writing in "Willing" is that theauthor always seems to have a link about what she said in the beginning of the story and what she says at the end of the story. For example, when she talks about how Sirde is older and slighty sagger than she used to be she adds in a metaphor about the jack 'o lantern and how it was rotten. I'a almost as if she is writhing away just like the jack 'o latern that she left. But also how she's still trying to keep what she once was. She can't move on and it seems like that she's trying to run aways from herself. Another example, is when Walter talks about the birds in the middle of story. Moore goes back to it at the end examplinhow Sirde finally was able to become that bird and fly aways from the hole she put herself in. I understand the concept of "Willing," that Sirde was always ready to go for what was infront of her, but at the same time I don't think she was willig. I don't think she was willing to finally go back to where her heart truelly wanted to be. She was scared of that place and so she decided to run aways from it. I don't think she truelly can be willing if she doesn't try to even face her fears. But at the same time I guess that's what willing is, trying everything else out except the one thing that you love the most.

Willing

In the beginning of the story it goes into Sidra and her lifestyle as an actress. Trying to make it in Hollywood, but her age has her limited. She obviously is tired of chasing a dream in which it seems she is not right for but, it is her passion; to be recognized, appreciated and accepted as the professional she tried so hard to be. Her frustration ultimately has her running away. Trying to search for a sense of realness. Something tangable and fulfulling. She Spends her days in loneliness. Basking in her fears, regrets, and past. She wanted to be so much more than she had become and it haunted herinner being. She would only speak to a few friends, Tommy and Charlotte. Both who told her that she was better than what she had let herself become but, she wasn't buying. She had an openess about herself. pg 414"She could rip open a bone and speak out of it, simple and clear. " Sidra wasn't one to buy into everyones opinon she knew what the deal was, how to work people to her advantage. She knew what she was and what she had to offer. She was tring to forget about the emptiness that LA had brought to her life and tried fill it with ordering out and listening to self esteem tapes. She stared out into the open body of water that was Lake Michagan. Reviewing where it all went went wrong and where she wanted to be. She had a strained relationship with her parents. Her father didn't approve of her past roles and had never gotten over it. Her mother was secretly jealous of her daughter and Sidra was beginning to be sick of them. She met a guy at a Blues bar that caught her attention. He had admitted to not being a big movie watcher which put Sidra at ease. She met someone that didn't have an opinion on her based on her career. Although they were an unlikely couple she pursued it. He told her about the only movie he could remember seeing. It was about a city of people that realized they were part of a dream. The people knew that if the person that was dreaming them awoke they would disappear, so they found a way to keep him asleep. The only thing wrong was when he dream changed so did they. So when the man dreamt of flamingos all of the people in the dream would become the flamingos and they'd fly way. She found this interesting. There was something about him that intrigued her. As they went through the motions her friends tried to warn Sidra about the signs but, she ignored them. To her, it seemed as though making a future and having a family was more important than finding that "someone special". She settled for him. He knew that she didn't really love him but though what they had could be enough. She had made it obvious to him through her attitude torwards him on many occasions that she didn't repect him. When an incident proved to her that he was an idiot she jumped at the opportunity to let him go. After she ended the relationship her depression got the best of her. She started to lose her grasp on reality and decided to give him another shot. To fill the void. She did like him afterall. So she gave him a call and they talked. He came over and told her about a business dinner with a female client he had for the following day. Sidra knew. She felt it inside her bones, the truth. He told her it was just business. She didn't trust him though. She called him all night and got no answer. He did not come home. She felt the sickness start up inside. When he finally picked up the phone the following day it was in his voice. He came over and admitted it was a date. He told her he didn't sleep with her but, Sidra sensed it. pg 422 A bone opened up in her gleaming and pale and she held it to the light and spoke from it. "I want to know one thing? Did you have oral sex?".
He after trying to avoid the answer he had, admitted to it. She then became cold inside. She turned off all of her emotions and died inside. She was no longer there. Just a body. Just an empty being. He cried there. It didn't move her though. It was as if her bones close and she became part of another dream. He asked her "What can I do?" But like the flamingo he had descibed in the dream she had flown away. She was already gone.

I loved this story so much. There was so much in it that remeinded me of my past relationships and some of my friends relationships. There was a realness that i could really appreciate about it.

"Willing"

I think that Sidra's and Walters realtionship will continue on in the same direction that it has been headed . It seems as though Sidra is very unhappy with her life but uses the fact that she is a "minor movie star , once nominated for a major award", to keep her going. No matter how upset she gets, she keeps on brining us back to that. I think that alot of times, people who are in any type of Hollywood business are very unhappy with their lives but hide behind their careers to mask this unhappiness. They date anyone and everyone regardless of whether or not they like them, and things just become kind of a rountine. I think its kind of irnoic how throughout most of the story Sidra can not stand Walter. At times she describes how much she dispises him, but then the second that he is going on a date with someone else, she gets all upset and decides that she would possibly like him again if he would become a "begging man". Everyone is always criticizing men for their behavior in realtionships, how they always sleep around with whoever will sleep with them, but sometimes people fail to see the games that woman play as well. Sidra's actions in this story display this. Even from the beginning when she first meets him, she teetertotters between liking him and not liking him- her mind would change in a matter of minutes. "there is something about him that she liked, something earthy beneath the act." Then a few lines later after he had been talking to her for a while- she says " Now she hoped he wouldnt go on. She had changed her mind a little". Throughout a good portion of the play she talked about how lonley she was, and how boring her little life was in her hotel room at the Days Inn. I think that she just wanted someone to try to fill the void that she felt inside. Many times in the story, the other minor characters mention that they were envious of her because she would "always get the parts in the play that everyone else wanted"- and even knowing this, she is still completely unhappy with her life. Which just goes to show you that even if people on the outside think that your life is great and would love to trade with you, it doesnt always mean that the person who is living it is actually enjoys it. Just because someone else is envioius of your life- doesnt make you any happier.

I think that the dream that Walter has can be compared to the lives that people live today. When he is describing it he says "A man is having a dream about a little country with little people... and then the people realize that they are only creatures in this means dream and they wouldnt exist if he wakes up." They institutionalize this man because they dont want to "not exist" but in the mean time it affects the mans actual life. It can be compared to alot of people today because sometimes they dont really care who they inconvience as long as they are able to live that lives the way that they want too. I also think that Sidra's realtionship with Walter can be parralled with this dream because she doesnt care how her not liking him would affect Walter. As long as she was the center of attention and they were talking about things that were in "her world" then she was content- but she did not want to hear about his job or anything that he is interested in. Also I think its ironic how at the end of the story Sidra kind of detaches from the situation and in the last few lines of the story, she ends up being "gone , gone ,gone out the window, gone, gone" just like the birds that were in his dream.

By being able to witness her reaction to Walter sleeping with someone else, do you think that Sidra truly cared about him and just didnt realize what she had when she had it. Or do you think that she chose to date him because it was someone that would be completely smitten by the idea of dating someone who was in a movie, and would never leave her? Was he just a source of comfort for her, or did she truly love him?

Willing

I think the story could have been told in the first person even if Sidra’s state of mind is unreliable, because describing her state of mind is the point of the whole story. Even using the third person, the story is focused on Sidra’s perspective and life. Moore created a depressive and sad character which somehow doesn’t really make the reader feel bad. I think this is because the tone of the story is also humoristic. It is told as if it’s a joke, in a sarcastically manner, but it has also a deeper gloomy side. I think the author uses a dark humor. For example, using images as “She hadn’t been given the proper tools to make a real life, she decided, that was it. She’d been given a can of gravy and a hairbrush and told, there you go. She’d stood there for years, blinking and befuddled, brushing the can with the brush.” This sounds miserable, but it’s also funny. Also when the author keeps repeting that Sidra is “a minor movie star, once nominated for a major award”, it seems that Sidra’s life is described in a very unimportant way, as if her miserable life was a normal thing to happen.

I liked this story because the author tells a very sad and realistic story but is still able to make the reader laugh. I think the way she does this is to put the depression on the same level as very unimportant things, that the reader would never expect to read, as for example saying that the solution to all the suffering in the world is to give hugs: “These days, she was reading thin paperback books by a man named Robert Valleys, a man who said that after observing all the suffering in the world – war, starvation, greed – he had discovered the cure: hugs.” The author takes the suffering for granted, she doesn’t seem to want the reader to realize how people suffer and maybe take action against this, but she only makes fun of it. I think that this way of writing the story could eventually work better because the reader laughs, and then thinks how this can be happening. I think the story pushes the reader into reflection.

By reading the last sentence: “But this dream had now changed, and she was gone, gone, out the window, gone, gone”; what do you think about the comparison between Sidra’s life and the movie about the Dream? What do you think will happen with Sidra and Walter’s relationship?

Willing

There are a few similes that I really like in this story. For example, when she says that "it came out wrong, like a lizard with a little hat on" (pg. 416). It's just a funny and unique way to describe something. Another one is the piano keys that are "shiny and mocking like an opened bone" (pg. 423), which references an earlier statement that "she could rip open a bone and speak out of it" (pg. 414). It's an interesting image of her pain, a broken bone that speaks. I think both similes reflect well on the ability of the writer because they aren't boring or predictable.

I also like one particular character detail, that Tommy "had made himself the make-believe author of a make-believe book of essays called One Man's Opinion, and when he was bored or inspired, he quoted from it" (pg. 412). It's the kind of specific detail that gives the character an identity, and it also emphasizes their friendship that they have a recurring inside joke. I thought it was humorous, like speaking in the third person, something that's obnoxious and playfully self-deprecating about his opinions.

One thing I didn't necessarily like is the way she uses comparisons to describe things. For example, "She thought of it as a cross between London and Queens, with a dash of Cleveland" (pg. 412). Later, "She felt like a cross between Anna Karenina and Amy Liverhaus..." (pg. 422). Also, "...a cross between shyness and derision" (pg. 420). I think it leaves too much for the reader to fill in. Somewhere between shyness and derision is kind of vague, it's not a sharp description. How many people have been to London, Queens, and Cleveland? How many have read "Anna Karenina"? If the reader doesn't know those cities or that character, then the references might go over their head. If they do know them, they don't necessarily have the same impression as the author. I guess that can be said about any description or reference, it has to mean something to the reader, so maybe these comparisons aren't any different. But I don't know if I would use them, or at least very rarely.

Could the story be told in the first-person, or would Sidra's state of mind make it an unreliable perspective?

PROOF

Crazy, well I don't think she was crazy. I think when someone close to you dies, you create ways to connect with them again. The scene alluded to her being crazy and i think we obviously need to read the whole play to discover whether or not she was crazy or if these sentimental moments are meant to deal with the pain of loss. I think craziness entails things or episodes that aren't natural. I think with Cathrine seeing her father and talking to him is a somewhat natural thing to do. Now thats not to say if she continues to talk to him that it would be normal, but considering she just lost her father, I think it is okay to assume that it isn't her being crazy.

On the other hand, Robert brought his daughter champagne, and when he 'dissapears' the champagne bottle remains. It is also there for her sister to see the next morning. I wonder about that bottle and whether or not that is a clue about what will happen...

Do you think the champagne bottle is significant?

play

I can see why Hal can be viewed as selfish because there hasnt been much time to mourn the death. However I can also see how it can be seen as a tribute to a man who was clearly very intelligent. He was convinced that no one else would be able to produce any type of mathematics like what was in those notebooks and he wanted others to be able to see and learn from them. I think that this argument really can go both ways depending on which way you looked at it. His daughter of course thought that it was completely self- absorbed to want to get money from her deceased fathers work and while I can see why she thought that- I dont really think that those were his true intenetions. I really do think that he wanted others to be able to admire the brillance that was portrayed on the pages.
I thought it was interesting how in the opening lines of the play, you have no idea that she is talking to her dead father. At first I thought that she was talking to her friend/boyfriend whom she lived with. After we learn that he is dead, it seems a bit more intriguing. The entire length of the play, she is trying to convince herself that she is not crazy but all the while talking to her dead fathers ghost. How sane is this? I do agree with her father that "you can not inherit" insanity but I dont agree with her own personal claim that she is not crazy.
But then that raises the question that was posed in the play itself which is- if you can consciously say that you are crazy, does the fact that you can recognize it negate the fact that you actually are? I think that sometimes everyone feels a bit crazy, and we are aware of it and voice this outloud but how many of us are actually really crazy?
I dont think that you can inherit insanity from someone. I have seen many instances where one or both of the parents were crazy and the child was not. If you are living with two crazy people, I can see how you could be strange- but theres a fine line between craziness and just being a little bit odd. I do think though that if she continues to segregate herself from society that she could possibly end up like her father- she could drive herself mad , but as far as her being "destined" to be just like him , I think is a far fetched idea.
I think that being able to portray a full situation simply by dialouge is talent and I as well would enjoy the opportunity to read the entire play. I would be curious to see how the entire thing plays out.
I think that the title of the play symbolizes what is Catherines internal conflict throughout the entire play. She is trying to proof/disprove that she is crazy. Is she crazy? Does the fact that she is talking to her dead father prove this? She is convinced that Hal is trying to steal things from her, seems to become paranoid, is this proof that she is crazy even though she turns out to be right? And i guess the most important question is.... what does being "crazy" actually entail?

play

I think the play might have been titled Proof because maybe the encounter with her father's ghost is proof that she might be crazy. It makes me think that because when her father is attempting to convince her that she is not crazy, he fails. I think he was trying to just make her feel better by not telling her that she might be in fact crazy. "You're sitting here. You're giving me advice. You bought me champagne." "yes." "which means..." "For you?" "Yes." "For you, Catherine, my daughter, who I love very much...It could be a bad sign." I like those lines of the play, because it reminds me of how our parents sometimes try to protect us from things that might hurt us. In this case, Robert was trying to protect his daughter by trying to convince her that she was not crazy. Robert knows that she feels depressed perhaps by the possibility that she might end up like her father, and i agree with earlier posts, that she almost resents him for it. I think in life also, we resent our parents for certain things, whether its physical traits, characteristal traits or the type of life we now live, or have lived. Wether resenting or parents is right or wrong, I don't think we can help it because we are humans but can only help cope with what we were given. Does anyone else view Hal as a selfish, suspicious character? After all the funeral hasn't even happened yet, and Hal is thinkinf of having his work published instead of mourning his death?

Proof

Just by reading a scene, it makes me want to read the whole book and even watch the movie. I think it’s a very interesting story. It manages to portrait the characters only through the way they speak and act, without any description. Also the dialogue is very active and it is able to capture the reader’s attention. I think the good thing about theater plays is that the dialogue makes the story more realistic because we know exactly what each character says so it is possible to recreate the scene as if it was happening in real life.

I really like how Catherine is portrayed in this scene. She seems to be very selfish and mean with her father and with Hal but somehow the reader is not repulsed by her character. I think there’s a deeper reason for her behavior. It is interesting that she has inherited her father’s skills in mathematics but it also seems that she has inherited her father’s insanity. Maybe she blames her father so much because she knows that she’s like him. I think the reason for her behavior may be her father’s death but she’s also kind of aware of her similarity with him and is afraid to end up like him. She never stops claiming that he’s crazy, “The problem is you are crazy!”, “There’s nothing up there. It’s garbage. (…) He was crazy. There’s no ideas. It’s like a monkey at a typewriter. A hundred and three notebooks full of bullshit.” This shows us that she’s trying to convince herself that she’s not crazy, that she’s not like her father. When she’s talking with Hal, she says “No. I’m not crazy”, the words “I’m” are in italics, which stresses the point that she doesn’t want to be like him.

Also in her imaginary conversation with her father, she expresses her fear of having inherited his insanity. Her father tells her: “There are all kinds of factors. It’s not simply something you inherit. Just because I went bughouse doesn’t mean you will.” I think she’s kind of stuck in her life because she thinks she’s going to end up like Robert, she can’t move on and be successful because of this. Her father has had a huge impact on her, she not only inherited his abilities but her depression and her fear of not being normal is also provoked by what happened to him. We also notice their similarities when Catherine says that his father talked to people who weren’t there or imagined that aliens were sending him codes, but Catherine is also imagining having conversations with his dead father.

I think that when her father says that it is a good sign that they can talk about Catherine’s problems he means that it is a good sign that she is able to recognize what she’s doing wrong. She is aware that she may be crazy, she knows it’s not normal having conversations with dead people. “Crazy people don’t sit around wondering if they’re nuts.” Which is what Catherine does all the time, sits around wondering if she’s like her father, if she’s going to have the same life. Therefore, she’s not crazy. Crazy people are just crazy, they don’t realize it. I think that further on in the story Catherine will be able to forget about his father’s illness and appreciate his talent, so she’ll be able to move on and be herself, not an image of her dead father’s flaws. At least that’s what I would like to happen next in the story, it would be kind of boring if she had the same life as her father.

Why do you think “Proof” was the title of this play? Do you think the biological inheritances will turn out to be stronger than Catherine's unique personality? Is she condemned to have the same destiny as her father?

responding to the play

I felt like the dialog moved fast which made it more affective. What was going on in the scene was very sad. Is Catherine crazy? does she have any hope of turning her life around? I think that after her fathers funeral she may finlay get it together. That last blow with Hal reality checked her. The whole time Catherine and Hal were arguing i was thinking she was completely out of line and selfish. It really pissed me off that she would not listen to a word that he was saying because he had a good point. She was only being pessimistic and not even thinking about her dead father. Obviously she loved him very much. Why wouldn't she want his work published, its what he would have wanted. I hope she apologizes to Hal in future scenes in the play. The dialog had a lot of emotion in it. I could really here each individual voice and see the looks on each persons face as they spoke. At first i thought she was sweet on Hal but maybe i am the only one who flirts with people by being mean, I like testing guys. After reading the untitled scene i think that it will help me grow to write dialog. I'm a little nervous because its hard to really connect with readers if your dialog is boring. I'm afraid my dialog will be boring.

Proof

The dialogue format is different from a short story, where the author describes and narrates, but it still draws the reader into the action. The only description comes in brief notes, so a lot depends on the actor (when it is performed), and on small sentence details (when it is read): question marks, exclamation points, ellipsis, italics, dashes, etc. These small details animate the dialogue, because they indicate how the characters are delivering their lines. For example, when Robert says to Catherine, "After midnight..." (pg. 5), the ellipsis helps get across that he is a father, that he is concerned about his daughter, that he wants to talk and waits for an answer. In a short story the author may directly describe the two characters, but that intrusion into the dialogue can be trimmed by punctuating effectively. When Catherine is on the phone with the police, her sentence is cut off with an em dash, and it stops the reader short, so that the dramatic moment is captured: "Yes, I'm at 5724 South—" (pg. 22). There's no need for a narrator to explain that she stopped short, it's already in the dialogue.

I thought the author kept the dialogue interesting by developing the characters. At first it seems that Catherine is just talking to her father on the porch, which might get boring after a while, but then we learn that he is actually dead, which gives her character and her dialogue a whole new direction. The same thing happens with Harold. Catherine accuses him of stealing, and she is proven wrong when she checks his bag. But we still don't know who he really is, whether he is trying to make himself famous by her father's work, or whether he is an innocent math teacher who respected his mentor. When the notebook falls out of his jacket, it's another surprise in the story, and his character appears to have selfish intentions. But then we learn why he has the notebook, and our previous questions about him are answered. These small moments of suspense and character development help the dialogue so that it has a purpose, and doesn't just seem like two people talking on a porch. The reader wants to continue reading the conversation because it adds up to something larger, a story.

If you had to guess about the rest of the play, do you think that Catherine is crazy herself, or is she just grieving?

Are These Actual; Miles?

This story was short and real. I liked the way it seemed like something that someone I knew went through. It was a realistic yet sad story.
The story seems as though Leo and Toni met by fate. They seemed to at one point be in love with getting everything they wanted if not with eachother. Leo was it seems in love with Toni from the beginnning. He bought children's encyclopedia's from her without even having children.
As the story progresses, it seems so obvious that Toni doesn't have respect for her husband. She teases him in such a way would break someones' heart that is in love with them to hear. She tell's him he's nothing and that he has no money and his credit is lousy. These things would kill a mans pride to hear from a woman he loves. She tries to act as though she means it jokingly, but to me it seems as though she is mad at him for the situations she helped them to be in. She is acting as though his opinion doesn't matter and doesn't take him seriously. She puts in the time and effort to dress up to sell the car and promises to call , but fails to do so until after its been hours after she was supposed to and at that, she continuously talks over him and cuts him off. She treats him as though he doesn't matter.
Leo is left to ponder what has become of his life. He has thoughts of suicide and I believe that becuse of the constant disrespect from his beloved and the fact that he feels worthless as a provider makes this seem like an alternative. He drinks heavily it seems to mask the pain and thoughts but can dismiss them from his clouded head. He is worried about his wife, but it wasn't so clear to me at first whether he wa worried about her saftey or that she was going to leave him for someone else.
I believe though that being in the situation he was in warrants him to be worried about those things when his wife is as Toni is. A superficial, materialistic, snob it seems. She tells him that she is on her way home only to stubble in intoxicated and ignorant at dawn. Leo struggles to stay in control eventhough his emotion would be fair in this case go off on her ass. She is however "so much" to him. She is impaortant ans the fact that he will start over on Monday and make it all right keeps him hanging on.
At the end of the story when he stop the man in the convertible, i wondered why he felt the need to explain about Monday. He wanted to prove something more that defend his pride it seemed. I would've expected more drama. The man asks "are these actual miles?" as though it was maybe too good to be true. Just like the deal it seems he has just gotten. A night with Leo's wife and a car for a steal of a price.
Leo's obvious obessionwith the car though is caught at the end mostly when he strips his wife of her clothes, and traces he stretchmarks with his fingers back and forth, thinking they are like roads. He remembers then the morning after they bought the car and it gleaming in the drive way from the sun.
I wish this story had a little more to it. I liked it alot. folled it well, but was disappointed with the ending. I think a bit more passion should have been invloved.

Are These Actual Miles?

I think that by using the title “Are these actual miles?” Raymond Carver wanted to stress on how important the convertible was for Leo and Toni. It makes us think about their past, the miles they rode on that car and everything they had lived together which is now gone with their bankruptcy. I like the fact that the title is an extract of the dialogue in the story: “Well, goodnight, the man says and coughs. Take it easy, hear? Monday, that’s right. Okay, then. He takes his foot off the brake, puts it on again after he has rolled back two or three feet. Hey, one question. Between friends, are these actual miles? The man waits, the clears his throat. Okay, look, it doesn’t matter either way, the man says. I have to go. Take it easy.”

Because Carver chose the title “Are these actual miles?” we know that the climax of the story is located at this point, in the dialogue between Leo and the man who bought the car. We can notice that the central theme of the story is Leo’s life and how desperate and lonely he feels. He is always abandoned by people who never take time to have a proper conversation. There’s a sense of rapidity and stress in the whole story.

First of all, the way that the story is written gives a sense of anxiety and pressure by listing action verbs one after another without stopping: “He circles the kitchen and goes back to the living room. He sits. He gets up. In the bathroom he brushes his teeth very carefully. The he uses dental floss. He washes his face and goes back to the kitchen” and so on.

Second, this sense of stress and anxiety is also shown on what we said before, the fact that Leo is always wanting to talk and wanting people to wait, not to hurry, to take time to explain things to him or to be with him. “I told you, she says. I have to go now. Wait, wait a minute, for Christ’s sake, he says. Did somebody buy the car or not? He had his checkbook out when I left, she says. I have to go now. I have to go to the bathroom. Wait! He yells. The line goes dead.” Also, Toni always hangs up first, without even saying goodbye or letting him finish his sentences.

It’s the same situation when Leo encounters the man who bought the car, the man is about to leave, but Leo needs to talk to him. “Wait! Leo calls and starts down the steps. (…) What is it that you want? The man says. Look, the man says, I have to go. No offense. I buy and sell cars, right? The lady left her makeup. She’s a fine lady, very refined. What is it?”. I think that this story may be portraying the American society because it shows how some business people act. There are a lot of people that are always hurried and stressed, walking on the street without caring about others. Maybe the fact that Leo wants everyone to wait, to relax for a while, is showing that people are anxious almost all the time. I did some research and found that Carver changed the title of the story; before being entitled “Are these actual miles?” the story was entitled “What is it?”, a part of the dialogue that also shows stress and anxiety, which is also focused on Leo’s feelings.

Why do you think the author changed the title form “What is it” to “Are these actual miles”?
Would there be a difference if the author hadn’t introduced Ernest Williams as a witness?

are these actually miles?

When I first finished the story,I was a little confused because throughout the whole story I thought that Toni knew the reason why they were selling the car- but then at the end it became very clear that she had no idea what the real reason was. "Bankrupt!" she screams. She twists loose grabs and tears his undershirt at the neck. "You son of a bitch". I think that as a husband, it was not fair for him to keep her in the dark, considering all the trouble the she went through to help him get the car sold.

I think that it was really great the way in which carver uses description. there isnt to much detail yet the reader is still able to see what is actually going on in the story. There is not alot of drama in the story to grab the readers attention,but its still entertaining.

I also think that within the context of the short story, the author is saying a little bit about the debt problem that millions of American families face. He says on pg. 148 " they buy what they want. If they cant pay, they charge" and I think that so many people in todays society fall into this cycle. Leo is clearly someone who is unhappy with his own life- we can see through his heavy drinking habits that he is trying to avoid some type of reality. The whole instant gratifcation idea and depression kind of go hand and hand because many people think... oh I am sad- so let me buy things that I think will make me happy and as the the things they buy just continue to get bigger , so do the prices, and with those two things increasing, the hole that is within also gets bigger. So many people think they need so many material things to make them happy and hardly nobody realizes how unhappy its actually making them.

Im not sure if its because I am completly missing something- but the title threw me off a bit. I guess I can connect the miles part with the convertible but I dont understand why at the end Leo says "between friends, are these actaully miles?" and the man responds "look, it doesnt matter either way" p.151 . What does the title actaully mean? and do you think that anything that carver wrote in the context of this story reflects the society we live in today?

Are These Actual Miles?

I like the sparse writing-style that Raymond Carver uses. His descriptions are short and direct: “He sits. He gets up. In the bathroom he brushes his teeth very carefully. Then he uses dental floss” (pg. 149). Every once in a while the author incorporates a longer sentence, so it doesn’t seem like you’re reading a list. Even though the writing is brief, it still has some good detail. For example, he mentions at the beginning that Leo “taps his lips with his knuckles” (pg. 146), and later he “puts the heel of his hand against his eye and pushes” (pg. 149). These small mannerisms reveal a lot about the mind state of the character.

I also like how the author introduces Leo’s suicidal thoughts. He doesn’t write a dramatic scene, he just briefly mentions it. The reader notes it and moves on, and this reflects how Leo’s thoughts aren’t a moment of desperation, but a slow fog in his life, something that he just lives with and doesn’t think too much about. He eats chili and crackers and thinks about biting the rim of the glass and watches television and brushes his teeth. The understatement in the action makes the small details stand out even more. There could be more complex description, but if the reader gets inundated with detail, he may not pay as much attention.

If this story were continued, would Leo recover from his bankruptcy?

On the golden porch

I think that the point of this story was to demonstrate the way in which children view the world, how innocent they really are. One of the best quotes in this short story was " childhood was a garden... without ends or limits without borders and fences". Here, I think that the author is trying to express how as children we have a much better imagination than adults do. To children everything is an opportunity to create something magical, where as to adults that very same thing could be viewed as plain and impractical.

Also, I think that throughout the short story, the narrator grew and matured. By having the child age while telling the story allows the reader to see the changes that most children go through from childhoodto adolescents and then adolscence into adulthood. In the beginning of the story, the child was fascinated by what was kept in his uncles room. " Will you show us the room". this statement expresses the childs anxiety in discovering and exploring new things however once he grew up and finally did see the room- we are able to see the disappointment due to the lack of something exciting." So thats it? thats what enchanted us? All of this second hand rubbish, these chipped painted night tables, these tacky oil paintings... these cheap beads".
For kids, these things probably would have provided hours of entertainment however for an adult its just a bunch of stuff thats taking up to much room. The quote "surfacing from the magical bottom of childhood, we open our chilled fist in the cold wind but what have we brought up with us besides cold sand" reinstates this point. For young minds, the possibilities are endless yet for adults we are searching for something magical but bring up nothing but a fistful of cold sand and let downs.

I also noticed a difference in the childs attitude towards his uncle as he grew. I think the same can be said for everyone, that once we hit a certain age, we were to busy and wanted to spend the smallest amount of time possible at home. Of course we all had much better things to do. As a child the narrator seems to be eager to be with his uncle and learning things from him, but towards the end he says " Well, alright I have five minutes for you.Its been so long since I have been here..."(572) This quote is showing his impatientness and how he wants to make a hasty exit to move onto the much more important things of the day.

I cant decide if the author at the end of the story was a full grown adult, or in the teenage years. What do you think his age is, and how it reflects his actions throughout the story.

Golden Porch

I had to read this short story twice because i was confused the first time i read it, and to be honest i didn't really get any more out of it the second time. I think that it is written or told from the mind of a child, a very young child. It was very "enchanting" in the description of things, I loved the imagery it gave me, and I'm sure the imagery is different for every person that reads it. I find that amazing, there is so much imagination in the way it was written it seems like it was actually written by a child. Although it was internally beautiful it lacked an overall plot, the only thing that i was positive about was when the uncle dies. It was very traumatic for the little girl because her uncle is who showed her "Alladins cave" which i believe to be the attic full of junk. To adults its crap but treasures to children. I don't really have much more to add I didn't really underatand the material.

On the Golden Porch

I think the authors point was not to show how a girl fears death, but more to show how children view the world, compared to the way adults see things. I think she develops this by using poetry and lyricism to engage the reader into the mind of a child.

I think the wonderment and imagination, and creativity of children is just as she described it. The contrast between when their uncle showed them "Aladdin's Cave" when they are children and when they are adults was great. They thought it was a magical place, all of those things were so foreign to them, things they had never seen before were fantastical. When they were adults it was just a bunch of junk oil paintings, cheap beads, and chipped painted night tables and they didn't have time for their tradition of when the clock strikes and the goblet hits the table, Uncle Pasha plays the midnight sonata. When they were children they begged him to play and were in awe of his power to enchant them... They used to "be grateful" and as adults they didn't even have time. "No. Excuse me, Uncle Pasha. I have to go."

I also found the plot to be a little confusing, but that might have been lost in translation. Or maybe it was meant to keep us guessing, keep us imagining. Do you think Uncle Pasha's death might have not been his death but rather the death of their enchantment with him? That maybe Uncle Pasha's ashes were actually his things, his livelihood?

On the Golden Porch

I think this story was almost like a poem, it was all made of metaphors and lyricism. “Childhood was a garden. Without end or limit, without borders and fences, in noises and rustling, golden in the sun, pale green in the shade, a thousand layers thick”. I really liked that side of the story because the reader is able to imagine the place and characters. I think the author’s goal was to make the reader dream. The story uses the lexical field of nature and freedom, which gives us a sense of peace: “pines”, “white roses”, “raspberry patch”, “life is eternal”. The beginning of the story made me think about a genesis, how the world started according to some religions, with a beautiful paradise and a naked man.

However, I think the story lacks of details in telling what is happening. I really like the descriptions but it was very difficult for me to understand the plot. I think the story was a bit confusing, there are too many characters and it focuses too much on describing the visual part of it, instead of telling us what is happening. I like the fact that there is some dialogue, but sometimes it was difficult to figure out who was talking.

At the beginning of the story, after some description, the dialogue begins without any introduction: “They say that early in the morning they saw a completely naked man at the lake. Honest. Don’t tell Mother. Do you know who it was? – It can’t be. – Honest, it was.” We don’t know who is talking or who Honest is. Later in the story, we understand that two girls are the narrators, “a red-and-green rooster cocks his head and looks at us: what do you want, girls? We’d like some strawberries”. Then there is the description of Uncle Pasha, but we don’t know what happened to the girls “Aargh! Let’s get out of here, run, it’s horrible – an icy horror – shed, damp, death…”. After that we learn that Uncle Pasha sold and egg to mother, but what does an egg have anything to do here? I think that the author wanted to capture the point of view of two very young girls. It seems that reality is mixed with dream and imagination. Everything is unclear and mysterious.

Personally, I prefer to have lyricism in poems, where there’s no need to have a plot, but in a short story, it makes it kind of confusing. I think that it is until the end that we actually understand it better, although it’s still kind of mysterious. After the girls leave: “Eight, nine, ten. No. Excuse me, Uncle Pasha, I have to go”, suddenly, Uncle Pasha appears death in the scene: “… Uncle Pasha froze to death on the porch.” I think that by making the story lyrical and abstract, we lose the active part of it.

Was the author's goal to show how a little girl fears the death of an uncle? Is there any meaning in the story that we can find beyond the lyricism?

On the Golden Porch

This kind of story is strange on the first read. It's the literary equivalent of an abstract painting. You know there has to be some point, but it just looks like random shapes and colors. There are a lot of great images; for example, "a caravan of camels passed with spectral tread through your house and dropped its Baghdad wares in the summer twilight" (pg. 570). I think the writer has to be able to paint those vivid images because the story doesn't work otherwise. There's no conventional plot for it to fall back on. The enjoyment in this kind of story is the imagery. It's like watching a movie with great special effects. The writer draws you away from plot and details and characters, and you enjoy the words and images for themselves. I don't think this would work as an ordinary style, because most stories need plot and structure. But it can be interesting as something different.

This style stretches the writer's imagination to create a dream atmosphere for the reader. With other kinds of story, the imagery has to be more subtle. You have to balance it with setting and character and plot and dialogue, whereas this style is more expressive. It can sharpen your ability to insert imagery with the same power into more traditional stories. She does tie it all together at the end, which is important so that there is another level beneath the imagery.

Does the author weave in clues about what the speaker is seeing and what is really there, or does the perspective only make sense at the end, when the speaker is grown up?

Ysrael and All Because of the Mistake

I think he already is just like his brother to answer the question. He was obvoiusly more naive than his brother at the time and i think this is a classic case of boys will be boys. I didn't find Ysrael to be as shocking or upsetting as a few others had. I guess I expect that to go on between boys, ie: stealing (not paying for the bus ride), beating up a helpless disfigured boy Just Because. They found that sort of thing exciting, I can see why. It's cruel, but its honest and its real.

To comment on the structure of the two, I really didn't get the numbering... It didn't seem to have any real reason to be there.

I did enjoy All Because of the Mistake. I did love how they said YOU all of the time. It reminded me of my childhood, when your father would tell you a bedtime story that made you imagine these fantastical things, well thats how i felt about that story.. I feel like it opened up the imagination and put you in the driver's seat (no pun intended).

Ysrael

I found this story very shocking. How can children be left alone as those two children have been, with their father only “sending them presents at Christmas” and their mother working most of the time at a chocolate factory “without having the time or energy” to take care of them? These two children have a lot of liberty and they seem that they haven’t been taught any moral values. They fight a lot, steal money and criticize others for their appearance. It is very shocking to think that this story may be based on reality, that there are girls out there who think that “they won’t get pregnant if they drank a Coca Cola afterwards”. I found there was kind of a dark humor in the story, because this sentence made me laugh, but still made me feel bad because it may be actually true. This makes me think about the inequalities between different countries, how unfair it is that there are innocent children who have to struggle because of poverty and lack of education when they don’t deserve it. I think the author’s objective was to show how difficult can be the life of a child who has to face this situation.

I liked the fact that the story was written from the nine year old child’s point of view. I think this stresses even more on the gravity of the social problems described in the story. By writing the story from an innocent child’s point of view, we can see how he is influenced by what surrounds him, and how he ends up following his brother’s bad attitude. It shows us how he is innocently led to be violent, without even knowing that he’s following a wrong path in his life. But does he have a choice?

I also found interesting the style on which the story was written. I liked that the author didn’t translate some words into English, and left them in Spanish. This makes the story more familiar and realistic, from the point of view of a child using words as “Mami” or the nickname “Rafa” to refer to his brother. I liked that this story seemed to be real; I would have thought that the author was writing about his own childhood if I didn’t know that it is a fictive story. However, even if it’s just fiction, the story deals with real social problems and therefore makes us think about reality.

Do you think that the little boy is going to end up being as his brother is?

Ysreal

The story was realistically harsh. I think the story was based around the character Rafa even though his little brother narrated it. It followed Rafa's every move until the cruel end. It must be terribly hard for Rafa and his family but nowhere near as hard as it was for Ysreal. The cold truth is that you have to be tough growing up in a place like that, Rafa was tough and normally a persons cruelness is not there fault but the way that they were raised. In this case Rafa's younger brother was kind hearted or at least young enough to be Innocent, but I'm sure enough time with his brother will change that.The detail in the story was incredible i think my favorite part is when Rafa walks of into the woods to meet a girl and after a while you can only see is a blur of the color of his shirt through the leaves. That imagery stood out to me most because in my mind i could picture it perfectly even the silhouette of the leaves with a light coming in from behind Rafa. I'm also sad to say that i think Rafa is right and that American doctors will not help Ysreal and even if they do he will be scarred for life, stupid pig. The end made me cringe a little bit, but if the story kept going i would see karma taking a toll on Rafa and things only getting better for Ysreal.

Ysrael

This story was sickening to me. That doesn't take away from the way that the writer tells the story. I felt like I was right there with Rafa and his little brother in The Dominican Republic. The detail was great. "Columns of ants had found a pile of meatless chicken bones at my feet and were industriously carting the crumbling marrow."Page 216. The wat Rafa tormented and spoke to his little brother as though he was so annoying was realistic to the point of where i was remember people I know that talked that way to there sibling. I absolutely hate the ordeal with Ysrael. I can not stand when children pick on eachother. The way children behave to those with disablitites sometimes is the most disgusting thing you'll even encounter. Rafa was a complete asshole that didn't much about anything but getting his pinga sucked. He is a typical peice of shit character. The way he is descibed so well makes me believe he is an actual person. Rafa's little brother seems to have a bit of a heart but I think that his brother will eventually change him into a disgusting pig like himself. What do you think happened to Ysrael? Do you think that Rafa could have maybe killed him with the hit over the head from the coke bottle? Do you think that they'll get in trouble for what they did? I wish this story went on more. Good Read, bad story.

All Because of the Mistake

Now this story was an interesting yet confusing read for me. I wish as stated earlier that the age description of the person was given. A little more detail would have went a long way. The way the story reads is like a diary. I felt like I was reading something that I had wrote,but, it wasn't making sense because of all the plane talk. The whole of the story though is what fets through to me. The insecurities we have within ourselves in life. We are given instructions as to what we have to do to survive and there are people there for us to guide us through the tough times in the beginning. Then, at some point we need to go off by ourselves. We have to figure it out for ourselves, but how? How do we know when we're ready? Especially when we doubt our own capabilities. The word responsibilty haunts us. We want so badly to things without the help of others, but sometimes are afraid that we will mess up and be soley to blame. The fact that Bruno knew that This pilot was ready for his solo flight by making a mistakle and correcting it on his own was brilliant. I read this story thinking to myself,"how blah", then just as the last page comes around everything comes into play. It is then you understand what all the fuss was about. I like this story alot.

All Because of the Mistake

I liked very much how the story starts. At first we don’t know what the author is referring to, by starting to describe some feelings that the reader should have, writing the story with “you” as the main character. I found this very original, I think it’s the first story I read which uses “you” as a character, this makes it easier for the reader to be able to understand the character’s feelings, since the reader is forced to put himself into the character’s situation, and wonder what it would be like if he had to face that kind of things. Personally, I could really feel the stress and nervousness of the pilot, as well as all the doubts he has about himself being able to do everything right.

I also like the way the narrator tells the story, by having flash-backs, which makes it sound more realistic. As if someone was telling us exactly what he’s thinking at that moment. “You glide along the coast in a fantasy of immobility and timelessness, on the right the island, on the left the sea, you glide along thinking of the first time you made the ascent with Bruno, the first time, the orientation and test flight” (pg. 207).

I think that the author chose not to give any details about the character to make the story more general. The pilot could be any person, and that makes it easier for the reader to think that he could be that pilot. Also, I don’t think that the narrator suffers from any disease; I actually think the author made a very good job to make the character’s feelings very life-like. We all have felt nervous and unsecure in some point of our lives, and I think this story is able to make the reader recall those feeling. Overall, I think it was a very good story because somehow the reader immerses in it and experiences the same feelings of the character.

How would the story change if it had been written in the first person narrator?

"Ysrael"

Instantly we see the bond of two older brothers right off the bat with the story; although it takes a while with detail to get that full amount of information. The narrator idolizes his older brother as most of us tend to do with an older sibling that doesn't beat the crap out of us daily. they would pick on us all the time; but they and we always had a soft spot for one another because we were the same blood.
The narrator at first feels sorry for Ysrael, stating that he used to throw rocks at the person. But the narrator always had a respect for Ysrael, because when this would happen; he would out-run any tormentor in his path. the two brother's begin their gig on Ysrael, the narrator pretending to be sick, and the older brother playing the stronger role; but none of them are truly intelligent. After they bate Ysrael into their plan, the older brother, Rafa proceeds to beat the crap out of Ysrael for no apparent reason. None other than to exacerbate the "male dominance, protector or territory" role that has plagued much of man kind over the centuries. Why do some of us continue to behave in such a manner?

"All Because of the Mistake"

I first of all want to strate that the format of "All Because of a Big Mistake is great. You can actually sense the tenseness of the author/narrator's tone by the format of the writing. No simple breaks in paragraphs, just pur details in a consecutive format that can not stop. Why?! Because the pilot is on the verge of losing his mind; he thinks he is about to die. How can an aspiring pilot have this much stress and intensity when flying?! I would want him to be my pilot thats for damn sure.
The narrator has a million thoughts running through his head, and because of these million thoughts the pilot forget simple tasks that Bruno has to watch over. Its very possible that the narrator suffers from some form of A.D.D. (Attention Defecit Disorder) because he can't seem to focus on exactly what he should do; he's too focused on what could possibly go wrong.
After this on-going descriptions of the thoughts and worries that plague the narrator's mind he's finally called in to land. As you lands the author worries about the physical gestures he's made that might negatively influence Bruno, even though Bruno hasn't seen a thing. The narrator is truly an insecure individual.
As someone who's never been a pilot we can empathise with the narrator's situation. There's many different little things that must be done for a successful flight. Do any of us think we could handle that kind of pressure?

All Because Of The Mistake

All because of the mistake was not an easy read for me. The narrators constant stream of consciousness mad it a little hard to understand exactly what was going on. I also think that everyone can relate to this story because everyone make mistakes, maybe not as life threatening as forgetting to lift the plane flaps but we do. I can also remember a few times when I'm trying to do something new and someone like Bruno is there to help you but doesn't really do much but in the end the lesson is stronger. I never really thought about the stress that a pilot would have because usually I'm too worried about the plane crashing when I'm on it that the pilots fear would never cross my mind.I love the part where he compares the first time flying a plane to the first time he had sex because i remember how nervous i was and it gives me a better idea of how scared he was, also I'm sure it brings the same relief and satisfaction at the end of it all. I liked All Because Of The Mistake because it takes you into the mind of the pilot and i could feel the tension and insecurity in the narrators voice or words i guess. I think not only was the main character looking for signs from Bruno but really anything that could tell him something was wrong and what the future to come may be.

Ysrael

I think that the details of this story are being told from an adult looking back. In the second paragraph of the story the narrator says " Mami shipped me and Rafa out to campo every summer" -showing the reader that this is someone who is looking back on his childhood experiences.

Its kind of ironic that while Ysrael is severly disfigured, he is still quite confident of his abilities. He boasts about himself and his talent as a wrestler stating that he "almost went to the Captiol to wrestle". I think that through Rafa's attitude at this point in the story, its easy to see that he is a bit jealous of Ysrael. I also think that certain of aspects of this story are easy to relate to for many of us because there is always that one person growing up who is made fun of by the others for their physcial apperance. It is these same people however, just as Ysrael was able to display, who are the strongest. Although it is Ysrael who should be the one that is insecure, it is actaully Rafa who displays this characteristic more. When people act the way that Rafa did in this story its clear how insecure they are with themselves. They have to scruitinize other people in order to make themselves feel good. The fact that he always has his brother following him around and telling him what to do also shows his insecurities. He has to always be in control of every situation.

The saying dont judge a book by its cover, came to mind while reading this story. Sometimes things arent always what they seem to be. Someone could be beautiful on the outside but an ugly person on the inside, while the person who is not so nice to look at on the outside can have the biggest heart out of anyone.

How easy is it to be persuaded into doing things we know arent right? How can a person want so desperatly to make themselves fit in at the expensive of another person feelings. What does this say about society and how some children are brought up?

all because of the mistake

Yes, I think that by giving the character a name and an age would have made the story a bit better. Although it was general, and everyone could relate I think that as far as grabbing the readers attention it would have helped.

The first few lines of the story ,"there is neither a precise moment nor an agreed day, no forewarning conveyed by an external sign..."p.203. says alot. Sometimes people think that there needs to be a sign that something in your life is going to go wrong, that something in the universe will be able to forewarn you of bad things to come- however the narrator of the story expresses the idea that most of the time there are not any of these things, that sometimes mistakes just happen. Another message that I think was supposed to be expressed is that when you make mistakes, you are able to learn from them and do better next time. When the narrator forgot to open the flaps and risked running out of runway for take-off, Bruno still did not tell him what to do. He sat back casually, while the pilot was frantic and allowed him to figure things out for himself. Learning things for yourself, always helps you to remember the lesson in the end. If people were always giving you the answers and allowing you to take the easy way out of sticky situations, you would not learn have as much. Also I think that its ironic that on pg. 205 the narrator says that "WE forgot to open the flaps." Its obvious that there was only one pilot who made the mistake but I think in this short amount of dialogue we are able to see a little bit about human nature. When things go wrong, many of us are quick to take the blame off of ourselves and place it in the hands of others and thats exactly what the narrator did in this situation. Even though it was entirely his fault for not opening the flaps, he still tried to give partial blame to his co-pilot/instructor.

It says at the end of the story that it was translated from Italian. Critics have said that translations are difficult and alot of the time, pieces of the work is lost in translation. Do you think that from Italian to English any parts of the story were lost?

Ysrael

This story is mostly about characterization. It doesn't spend much time describing the setting, and even the characterization doesn't include much background. The two brothers and Ysrael are the main focus, their personalities as seen through the younger brother's memory. I think the theme of this story is that Ysrael may be physically disfigured, but the older brother is an ugly person. He looks out on "the brucal trees that blazed like fires on the mountain" and his only thought is to curse them (pg. 211). He rides the bus without paying, he smashes a bottle over Ysrael's head, he steals from his uncle. His brother just tags along, but he is slowly becoming the same person; he ends the story pushing an old lady with his feet (p. 219).

I think the style of characterization in this story can be effective. Instead of just describing the brothers from third-person, they are detailed along the way of their journey. How they act and what they do is the main way that the author tells the story. For example, when Rafa declines to wrestle with Ysrael (pg. 218), this gives more color to his character as a coward and bully. It allows the action to flow more quickly, and the dialogue doesn't need to be structured. There are no quotes, just quick mentions of what's being said.

Because the story is told from the younger brother's point of view, there is some innocence about the perspective. He suspects that his brother is a jerk, because of the way he gets treated himself, but he doesn't know what it means. If the story were told from Ysrael's perspective, there might be more explanation or commentary on Rafa's behavior. His brother sees how he acts, but he doesn't really evaluate the behavior. He's just following along with his older brother.

When is this story being told? Is the younger brother an adult looking back or still a child? Does it matter?

All Because of the Mistake

The second-person point of view in this story is interesting, because the "you" is not the reader. The story is about the main character, and is told by him. I think this kind of second-person works because it draws the reader into the action, while not requiring him to become a character. He can associate with the "you" of the main character.

Another thing I found interesting was that the specific action of the story (flying an airplane) was not important to the theme. The character could have been doing anything. It was the psychological process of learning that mattered. I think this is why the author chose the second-person, because it keeps the story real but also general. The character is detailing real action, but he is doing so in a general way, so that the "you" can be anyone, and that theme of learning can be applied to anything, not just flying an airplane.

I think the airplane aspect is important in another way, because it really makes the story. It's not important to the theme, but without the detail about flying, there wouldn't be a story. It's a good lesson about writing fiction, that not everything has to be directly related to the theme. Do anemometers and maneuvers and the other technical details of the story really matter? They contribute to the story as entertainment, and the theme is made in a subtle way around them. It isn't until the end that the mistake made at the beginning of the story is related to the theme. Before that it's just an event that we experience through someone's eyes, which is what makes a story entertaining.

Is there any particular reason why we aren't given personal details about the main character, such as name and age? Would they make the story better?

Mark of Satan

I had a hard time keeping focus on this story. Like another person stated in a earlier post all of the uneeded ramblings made it hard for me to focus on the big picture. Harvey was indeed an evil man. Thelma and her daughter while trying to do good were very much nieve to go about preaching the word of G-d without caution.
I think this story tells of two different dilemasin everyday life. One of which people don't seem to realize when they are in the midst of danger. Everywhere around us there are people that are out to hurt and take advantage of us without our knowledge. Thelma was trusting in G-d and the mission that she was on to help save those souls that have been marked by evil, but wasn't aware that that very evil could doom the life of her and her child. Her want and need to spread the word of the Bible and teach Harvey of the love and hope that G-d had for him was her main concern. This blinded her eyes to the true nature of Harvey's hospitality. If it wasn't for the drugged stupidity of her demented host she could have been raped and killed along with her daughter.
The other side can speak for those with strong beliefs and faith in G-d's works. This means that no matter what the danger that finds you, if you have faith in him, speak his words and spread the love and compassion he has for us with others he will see you through all the bad things that come your way. Thelma's mission to make Harvey understand that he too was loved by G-d was all that she was focused on. She believed that if she was passionate enough with her readings from the Bible that the scriptures would speak to his very soul and help him to Love G-d again and have faith.
Although it seemed as though Harvey was going to see his evil plan through, even if he had to crawl after her through the gravel and glass. He realized it wasn't worth it. In the end it seems that Thelma's words though finally made more sense. He at last saw that he was alone in the world with only his evil intentions to keep him company. I believe that this was what ultimately made him ask to be saved.
I wonder though Harvey seemed to finally turn over a new leaf in life would his sister and her anger towards him eventually influence him to turn evil again. What do you think?

Mark of Satan

I, along with most of the majority of the other students, felt this story was not as well done as it could have been. The author's incessant rambling on pointless details just made me lose focus. Now I'm sure these details were necessary for character devolopment for the author. "Flash" paid extreme attention to detail, but I found myself saying "enough already" as the story progressed. Certain quotes such as "The grimy venetian blinds of the room were drawn ahainst the glaring heat. It was above 90 degrees outside and there had been no soaking rains for weeks and in every visible tree hung ghostly bagworm nests" further instill my point of his ramblings on details that didn't seem to ever end. Although we can see Flash is obviously psychological unstable, we get the sense that Flash hasn't always been this way. We get hints of an addiction to heroin that he suffered early in his life. A heroin addiction can change the psychological perception of a person to the entire world. Has anyone actually ever met a sane junkie?

-Dan Morgan

Mark of Satan

I was actually pretty disappointed with this short story though it Wasn't bad and an easy read I suppose i expected more from the title, maybe its because I'm sitting in the waiting room of a hospital but i didn't really enjoy it. Anyway from what i got 'Mr. Flashman" had the intentions of raping Thelma . I think that rape is pretty evil, although he had no plans to kill either of them at first he had a sense of goodness in the way he went about it. A sort of eire sweetness, an example is when the narrator reveals that he wouldn't want the child's heart to stop beating after he measures how much to put in each drink.This guy is about to rape a messenger of God, that's about as bad as it gets, why would he care? It is definitely a battle between good and evil, not only Flash and Thelma but Flash and himself. Throughout the story he switches back and forth from personalities he is sure to have psychopathic tendencies but are they induced by the devil? I personally am not religious but do have what i believe to be premonitions. Flashes premonition could have been just a craving for violence or a sign from God to change his way and that his chance was coming but the point is your not supposed to know. The story ends with Flash "changed" and for good too because the part about bleeding out his sins or creating deep wounds in his knee that would develop into scars so he will always remember the day he was saved kind of leads you to believe that he is pointed in the right direction. Lets not forget that he was about to rape an ordained missionary as her four year old daughter lay sedated somewhere close by. Using my imagination from where the story left off he slipped back into his duel personalities and went back and forth from leading life with no regret or morals to a sad and pathetic piece of charity work.

Mark of Satan

I think "his things" can be interpreted many ways. First off, I think that it was meant to be mysterious and make you wonder about this man. By adding those subtle details you wonder, Is he psychotic? Is he on drugs? Or does he posses the "mark of Satan"? So with that said i think "his things" is an out burst or a craving, more specifically to drug and rape women. I think his things simply refer to another few people to terrorize and send them off running (if he lets them live of course). If you take the three quotes and read them one after another it makes a lot of sense. "Hadn't he wakened in the night with a pounding heart and a taste of bile with the premonition that something, one of his things, was to happen soon?" This sounds like craving, heart pounding, the taste of BILE and a 'premonition' or anticipation of a future event. "He was frightened of the possibility of one of his things veering out of control, for in the past when this had happened the consequences were always very bad. For him, as for others." This indicates its happened before, and had ended very badly... His sister also mentions that he is on parole. And lastly, "He could not believe the woman was escaping so easily. That his thing was no thing of his at all." I think after this realization, after his crazy had passed, I think he actually felt remorse for his terrible thoughts and that's why he begged Thelma to stay. That's why he dug his knees into the broken glass, so that he would remember. So he would have a physical "mark of Satan" that he could look at to remind himself how he felt.

I also believe that stupidly, he drank Thelma's glass of drugged lemonade.

There were some incredible description in the story. I think this added some subtle indication as to how crazy he was. "The sun was a soft slow explosion in the sky." "Blinking the way a mollusk might if they had eyes." "Then easing like a brisk mechanic doll into her recitation." and finally, "The gin coursing through his veins, which ordinarily buoyed him up like debris riding the crest of a flood and provided him with an acute clarity of mind, had had a dulling downward sort of effect." I adore these descriptions. Dont these seem like decriptions a psycho would use?

Mark of Satan

I like how the author makes a contrast between the two main characters of the story, Flashman and Thelma. On the one hand, Thelma is just willing to help. She is a witness of God’s love and her mission is to bring this love to everyone. She is a figure of innocence; she doesn’t even notice Flasman’s bad intentions. “Another woman would have been aware of Flash’s calculating eyes on her like ants swarming over sugar, but not this impassioned missionary for the Church of the Holy Witness.” She wants to save Flash’s soul by letting him feel loved and important. “He tried not to show his impatience with Thelma, fixing instead on the amazing fact of her: a woman not known to him an hour before, now sitting less than a yard away addressing him as if, out of all of the universe, he mattered.”

On the other hand, Flashman is having an inner struggle. He wants to pay attention to Thelma but for some reason, it is very difficult for him to do this. “The man who called himself Flash was making every effort to listen.” He hears some voices on the inside that tell him to do good or bad things. “Offer them drinks, lemonade, but no, he was thinking, no.” “Don’t flatter yourself you matter enough even to be grieved! Asshole!”

I also noticed that the author stresses on the word “death” by writing it several times and in italics. “The Holy Witness records, ‘He that overcometh shall not be hurt by the second death.’ As abruptly as she’d begun, the child ceased, her mouth going slack on the word death”, “God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there will be no more death. Maybe it was so? So simple? No more death”, “Her voice rose jubilantly on the word death”. I don’t really understand what the child means when she speaks about this second death, but it seems like what the missionaries want to do is to give Flashman the hope of having his soul saved and being immortal in some way. By receiving a message of love and hope, Flashman seems to have realized that life is worth living. At the end of the story, Harvey has finally gained full control of himself, so we can say that the missionaries were a positive influence to him. The change in Harvey is revealed by his eyes. When Harvey raised his eyes to his sister’s, “he did not appear to be drunk or drugged; his eyes were terribly bloodshot, as if he’d had one of his crying jags, but his manner was unnervingly composed”, he had a “look of maddening calm” a “blasted sober look in his eyes she hadn’t seen in twelve years”.

There is a contrast between Flashman and Thelma but there is also a contrast inside Flashman himself. The story refers to Flasman’s “things” coming out as if he couldn’t control them. “Hadn’t he wakened in the night to a pounding heart and a taste of bile with the premonition that something, one of his things, was to happen soon?” and also “He was frightened of the possibility of one of his things veering out of his control, for in the past when this had happened the consequences were always very bad. For him as for others.” It seems like he often loses control of his actions because of drugs’ influence. What does “one of his things” refer to?

To answer Jason’s question, I think that it is probable that Harvey lied to the missionaries about being orphan just to inspire them pity, which wouldn’t be surprising since he also lied about his name. We could think that he is lying because he exaggerates a lot by saying “I was an orphan discarded at birth, set out with the trash. There’s a multitude of us scorned by man and God. What happened to me before the age of twelve is lost to me. Just a whirlwind. A whirlpool of oblivion.” Maybe he just wants to show how miserable his life is, he wants the missionary to realize that life is unfair for some people and to make her see this he has to exaggerate. “If it was a cruel mother, which I don’t contest, it was a cruel God guiding her hand, Thelma – wasn’t it?”, “Our Savior? Who says? On my trash heap I looked up, and He looked down, and He said, Fuck you, kid. Life is unfair.” He wants to explain why he has “lost contact” with God over the years but apparently, it’s not true that he was an orphan discarded at birth since his sister says that “by accident of birth they’d shared a household with two hapless adults who were their parents”.